by brad
Project Management Software Recommendations for Managing PPC Accounts
9:00 am in PPC Marketing Blog, Productivity by brad
I’m a self-admitted:
and the list goes on…
A while ago I wrote an article on How to Run Your PPC Accounts like a Project. Projects have milestones, todo dates, team insight, and most importantly – accountability.
After I wrote the article, I received a lot of feedback and questions about what project management solution I recommend. Today, I’m going to give my current opinions on the systems available. Of course, I will not cover every system a some are not suited to PPC management, some are meant for enterprise projects and large teams, and others have a large development focus.
First, I’ll look at some of the features of PM systems that help in evaluating a system, and then look at a few of the software options available.
Project Management Requirements
Recurring Tasks
Some PM systems allow a task to be recurring. This means you can easily setup tasks such as:
- Change bids on Tuesday
- Change bids on Thursday
- Test ads every other week on Friday
- Test landing pages every other week on Friday
- Add negative keywords on Mondays
When the day of the task arrives, you check off the task and then it will automatically pop-up the next time it is due. That is the ideal situation for running PPC accounts like projects.
Many accounts do not support recurring tasks. That means that you have to either just change the due-date whenever the task is complete, or mark the task as complete and then create a new task. This is not an ideal situation as something is bound to get messed up over time.
Templates
A PM template can be a project or a todo list that you create once and then can easily apply to a new project or task list.
There are two main reasons you need templates:
- The project management system you choose does not support recurring tasks. Therefore, you need to apply new todo lists each month (or change the due date every time you complete the task)
- You are an agency and need to create every client as a new project.
If you don’t fit into one of those two situations, then you may not need templates.
Speed & Ease of Use
Project management software is like software: sometimes it is intuitive and easy-to-use and other times its clunky, confusing, or wastes your time.
Even if a system has every bell & whistle you need – if its slow and cumbersome then you will find that your team doesn’t use it as its not helping you get stuff done – its in the way.
While these items are subjective, I’ll try to give my best interpretation for each system what I think about the interface and ease-of-adoption.
Time Tracking
I find time tracking is useful beyond just billing. Of course, if you are billing time & materials, then you will want to track time somewhere. Tracking directly in the PM software is nice as you have a consolidated view into the total hours for a client and the work that is done and needs to be done.
However, I find time tracking very useful even for internal teams managing PPC accounts. I was working with one company who finally agreed to track time per task. After just two weeks, we realized that they were spending a ridiculous amount of time blocking placements using Google Analytics data. This company was using GA and AdWords APIs for reporting data, but they weren’t consolidating the view for some data. It took less than a week for a single developer to create a script that would automatically block placements with the same methodology. There was a simple 20 hours per week of time reclaimed because of time tracking.
However, this might not be a deal breaker for many – its one feature I find incredibly useful for both billing and non-billing purposes.
3rd Party Integrations
If you are tracking time inside of your PM for billing purposes, then it makes sense to choose a billing system that will automatically grab your data from your PM system so that you don’t have to re-enter data in a 2nd place.
There are some systems that will automatically sync files between your PM, Google docs, and dropbox accounts. Change the files in one place, and they are changed and synced everywhere.
While 3rd party integrations can be incredibly useful – watch out for ‘feature creep’. You want a system that helps you stay organized and get tasks done. You don’t want to burden yourself with so many features that either you never use them or you feel you must use them and thus give yourself busy work.
Project Management System Reviews
Basecamp Review
Basecamp is one of the most used project management systems around. It is probably the fastest of every PM software that exist. It also has some of the fewest features. Basecamp puts as much thought into what they do launch as to what they do not launch.
For years, Basecamp has been the best project management system for those new to project management due to the lack of features. However, it does not support recurring tasks. It does have robust templates, and the best 3rd party integration system around; but the lack of recurring tasks can be a dealbreaker for many.
Recently, Basecamp renamed the current project to ‘Basecamp Classic’ and introduced a new interface. It might be that I’m not use to the new interface yet – but personally I can’t stand it. They took out the API, templates, time tracking, etc. If they roll back to the old version (if you have the old version – they will support it; but I don’t think you can signup for the old version) then Basecamp Classic is great overall – if you don’t need recurring tasks.
Deskaway Review
I’ll always have a special place for deskaway as they were one of the first systems to support recurring tasks, time tracking, and templates. I used them a *lot* for two solid years because of those features. However, the past couple years has seen advances in speed and interface design with HTML 5, AJAX, etc; and Deskaway has never taken advantage of what’s possible. It really needs a UI overhaul.
While Deskaway has as many features as any of the products on the market, several tasks take just too many clicks and screens to complete. There are times it feels like its ‘in the way’ of getting things done and it isn’t always helping you. If you need a full featured system, or if you want a system that will keep both your developers and your team organized – it can be useful. It doesn’t have the capability of release cycle scheduling like JIRA, but it does have bug tracking so it can be used by developers and PPC mangers alike.
Podio Review
Podio is like that kid in class who ‘has potential’ but just can’t seem to get around to getting his homework done.
Podio has features that go well beyond project management. It can be a CRM, project management, advertising management, email task lists, and much more all in one interface.
Podio is the most customizable of any of these PM systems – nothing even comes close. But it has some fatal flaws. For one its slow. It feels like it’s a start-up that hasn’t switched to Rackspace Cloud Hosting or AWS yet (either that or its UI is making way too many non-optimized calls to the database). It also is very non-intuitive calling projects ‘workspaces’ and each workspace only has one task list. There is not a task lists or sub task organization.
Podio is still new; so I’ll give it a break and keep an eye on it – it does have potential; but potential doesn’t help me get work done.
ZOHO Review
To call Zoho just project management is an injustice. Zoho is a replacement for your CRM, PM, and Google apps all rolled into one.
If you are looking for a non-Google solution to email, docs, etc – then you should consider Zoho.
Four years ago, Zoho was my PM, docs, and many other systems rolled into one – and I really enjoyed it. Then they refreshed their UI and my Zoho fascination was resigned to the trashbin. What use to take five seconds suddenly took 30. What took one click suddenly took 5.
It is a shame – it has a lot of potential. Different potential than Podio. Podio is a PM/CRM/tracking system for anything online. Zoho could also be your email, docs, and more. I check back on it every six months or so and I still don’t find a reason to go back. If you are looking for an all-in-one solution – take a look. If you just want a good project management system – then keep looking.
Teamwork Project Manager (teamworkpm.net)
TeamworkPM.net is a Basecamp rescue site. If you like the concept of basecamp but it just doesn’t quite fit your style; then take a serious look at TeamworkPM.
TeamworkPM supports recurring tasks, copy project (an ad hoc template system), milestones, and customizable dashboards. Its still new that it doesn’t have all the features (such as granular user permission by project) of more seasoned software, but they do have an excellent roadmap.
Where TeamworkPM really falls short is 3rd party integration. If you are looking to integrate the data elsewhere; you won’t find too many options. If that’s not a problem, then take a close look at TeamworkPM.
If you just want to get things done and do not need a lot of features, take a close look at TeamworkPM.
Calendar
If its just you and you don’t need to show accountability to another person, share files, or have any more work other than getting things done – then create a calendar of all your tasks. We have a free calendar you can subscribe to and instructions how to create your own inside of Certified Knowledge. You only need a free account to access the information.
Project Management Recommendations
If you need lots of 3rd party integrations: Basecamp Classic
If you need a single PM system for developers and managers: TeamworkPM (no bug tracking) or Deskway (bug tracking).
If you want the latest cutting edge new software on the market: Podio
If you want a single login for everything business related: Zoho
If you just want to get work done: TeamworkPM.
If you think this is too many options and you just want me to tell you what to pick: Choose TeamworkPM.
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Thanks for this review Brad. I’ve been giving Podio a try since your last post. I’m also a Google Apps for Business user and like the integration there.
In terms of time management, Yast is another service available as a standalone or via Google Apps marketplace. It’s simple yet very effective.
Adrian – why do you think Google Apps is a great integration? I’m also a G Apps user; but sometimes outside of having a dropdown navigation link – the integration doesn’t seem to do much.
In some systems its great (batchbooks is a wonderful contact sync for CRM as is desk.com for support). Just wondering what PM/time tracking feature that having integration for makes a difference in your everyday workload.
Thanks.
As mentioned, I am new to Podio but the hook for me (being the simple soul that I am!) was the ability to add tasks directly from email. Coupled with the fact you can now add docs from Google Apps and assign to others, I feel comfortable with this functionality.
I am very new to it so would class myself in trial mode but it’s certainly a big improvement on the task manager I was using previously and, of course, better than the near non-existent offering that Google provides.
In terms of AdWords PM, I don’t have the formality of process that you have outlined. I imported your calendar to see what you have created there. Of course, the tasks were all logical but I couldn’t see it as being a practical solution for me; I’m not really sure I could segment a project in this way but prefer to work with a ‘things to consider/review’ type list and then prioritise based on time available for a given project.
Adrian – that makes sense – thanks for sharing.
I’m still using basecamp for a lot of items (I need very granular permission levels for tasks and views because clients, employees, contractors, developers, QAs, etc login to the system and I want a perfect billing/invoicing sync – although I mostly use JIRA for developers b/c of release cycle scheduling) and some simple items for newer employees who aren’t overly familiar with PM.
What I’ve found to be a really nice solution for document collaboration is CloudHQ. It syncs google docs with dropbox (and basecamp). So, if something is changed in any of those places, it is synced everywhere. As soon as they add evernote syncs as well; then it might become a must-have collab updating system.
Thanks for tip re CloudHQ. Seeing the reference to Dropbox means it’s another I’m going to have to explore. Ho, hum… so much good stuff, never enough time (somewhat ironically!).
I’m also an Evernote user and just love it. Another that I’m sure I could do more with but think it’s fab. The ‘Clearly’ add-on for Chrome is really nice.
Just had a very quick peek at CloudHQ. Probably overkill for my needs. I use Dropbox for those files I don’t want in Google Apps, i.e. no need to sync.
I use Syncdocs to synchronise Google Docs between computers and back this up to cloud and locally using Mozy.
There’s probably more refined solutions but this works for me.
Hi Brad– Ryan here from Podio. Thanks for the feedback– over time I hope we’re able to live up to the potential you see in us!
To answer your question about our google integration… we offer an email gadget to turn emails into Podio tasks, google docs integration for workflow around your files, and import/export for google calendar and contacts. Here’s a complete rundown: get.podio.com/Podio-for-Google-Apps
To clarify some confusion around workspaces & tasks: Many of our customers use workspaces to manage multiple projects (so they’re not exactly the same thing). Tasks can be associated with anything in Podio to help you stay organized– a specific project, deliverable, or even just a label. Ping me if I can show you how that works.
We do run on AWS, so I’m surprised that you’re seeing performance issues– let’s see if we can get those resolved for you at [email protected].
Anyway, great feedback, fantastic to get this sort of comparison!
Cheers,
Ryan
Hi Ryan,
We are close to using Podio for our enterprise Project management and collaboration tool.
A big question we have is does Podio have the ability to have subtasks. Right now, all we see is Tasks.
Appreciate your reply and if there is a number for us to call you at to get details on this … all the better!
Thanks,
Marc Naidu
Singapore
Ryan,
Thanks for stopping by. Just to be clear – this article isn’t about PM systems in general – it’s specifically for managing PPC accounts.
I do understand how the system works; the concept of spaces, etc.
What I find very non-intuitive is how views are created. For instance, if you have 6 workspaces and 4 projects within a workspace; it seems that you’d want to choose tasks from the top bar to see your tasks and then a workspace/project from the side bar and then see that intersection view for tasks.
The other way (since its not an intersectional system) to handle tasks management from a view standpoint it so easily have a custom view by person. For instance, tasks due by me in the next 7 days. Or tasks due by me in the next 7 days for project Y. On the task overview screen you can view them by date or by project/tag/etc. But there’s not an easily customized overview screen show what needs to be done right now (unless I’m missing something – if I am please let me know).
I do really like the customization feature and apps so that you really can make podio do whatever you want it to do. I just personally find that the way the UI lays out can get very confusing as to what click causes which view to be displayed.
As Podio has a very customized layout and really does need some instruction as to how to use the system because its not just PM; it would seem that making the layout/familiar concepts as intuitive as possible would be key to increasing the usability.
Note on Asana:
I received quite a bit of email/tweets mentioning that I left off Asana. I did so because it does not have milestone or calendar views, permissions by project/task, private tasks, etc.
However… If you just need task management (and tasks can be segmented by project, heading, recurring, etc) where everyone within the company can see the tasks; and nothing else – then Asana is a good system. My main concern with Asana is that if your company/client lists grows – the software might not grow with you.
As far as straight task management goes; Asana and NirvanaHQ (personal only but amazing) are two exceptional systems.
Thanks Ryan – while it’s initially appealing to get a one-stop shop for project management (time tracking, CRM, invoicing, accounting, etc) I’ve found that I have had more success in finding the companies that are the best at their niche and integrating my systems together. For that reason, I’ve been using TSheets.com for my online timesheets, FreshBooks for my invoicing (although they do time tracking as well but I’ve found that invoicing is their strong point) and ADP for payroll… it has been a dream team of softwares for my business!
Hey Brad,
Your comments are well taken. We are currently working on a brand new UI which will take advantage of all the new things that have cropped up in the last few years. Faster, better and access anything with 2 clicks or less. Stay tuned…
Thanks for mentioning DeskAway
Best,
Sahil
can i suggest a good free project management tool? try this time tracker http://www.truetimetracker.com/ – with ability to manage projects and create invoices
Well I ended up trying out podio, deskaway and teamworkpm(although i know basecamp) and in the the end teamwork is the winner. I found that for my purposes their interface and everything else just worked better for my paid search needs. Easy to use task lists, the user permission abilities to allow other workers only access to their lists, time tracking and the ease of use won me over. I really liked podio but the interface seemed a bit hard to work with. Deskaway seemed all right but in the end teamwork was the winner here. It seemed very scaleable and right now I am going with the 5 project pricing model. My smaller clients I have combined into 2 projects with task list for each client, I have 1 project for my company business, and then my 2 major clients each get a project. As I, hopefully, turn smaller clients into big ones then it is very easy to swap task lists around to their own project. Thanks for this and the past article it has really managed to turn my todo list into something much more manageable.
dashley – thanks for the update. Always nice to see when the topic is both useful and actionable
Brad, thanks for the article. Let me also suggest you another project management system that seems to meet all the requirements you’ve mentioned – TeamLab. It provides project templates, the time tracking option. The calendar includes recurring events with notifications and synchs with Google, Yahoo and Apple calendars. Among the other integrations there’re Box.net, Dropbox and Google Docs. TeamLab also offers a pack of really unique features such as the built-in online editor.
Hope my suggestion is useful for you.
Olga – Thanks for sharing. Does the software support recurring tasks as well?
Brad, Great article! Please also check binfire.com, it is a collaborative project management application with lots of social features. Includes advance features like interactive Gantt and WBS etc.
David
Brad – the TeamLab software does not support recurring tasks but this can be achieved with the calender – this is one of the main limitations of this software. Limitations with both this software and Podio are also the lack of integration with CRM and Projects. Podio is powerful but it does not have the most user friendly interface and is not intuitive.
@carpool thanks for that info. I just created a quick account with teamlab and it also doesn’t look like it supports task lists. I really like breaking down tasks into task lists for large projects. I have some projects with more than 500 tasks. Trying to see that as one big list is impossible to comprehend.
I really didn’t think of task lists as a major selling point as most software I was using examining used it (a few didn’t). After seeing even more task & project managers, I’m starting to realize that really is a feature that I need.
@Brad there doesn’t seem to be the perfect system yet. 500 tasks is quite a lot! We wrote a blog post about project management system software that we tried – Basecamp, TeamLab, Project Bubble and Podio. We went to Project Bubble as it is simple & easy to use and integrates the CRM with the Projects – but it does not support recurring tasks and we found a flaw with the built in time tracker (timesheets disappear when complete) so we are moving back to Podio. Since we wrote the post – we had suggestions for these systems http://www.Gtdagenda.com, http://www.happytodos.com. http://www.acecamp.com & http://www.groupcamp.com – disclaimer – we haven’t checked them out.
Ahh – I meant aceproject.com not acecamp.com
@carpool thanks for the update. I might have to put together a checklist of features for project management software and its uses for ppc management, business management, actual project management, and software project management.
I doubt I’ll be able to add in checkboxes for every software for every possible feature, but the overall chart might be useful for everyone.
Here I am on a Thursday night, surfing the web with a dozen tabs open looking for that looking for THE project management service to manage my recurring flat rate service business to manage PPC clients. I’ve looked at practically all the options in the Google app marketplace. And another half dozen more. Latest and greatest is SWYDO. Apparently, made just for us. But I’m not sold yet.
I’m with djohnson on the niche concept. While I’m not familiar with Podio, I generally find the all-in-one solutions to be more of a pain in the long haul. I call it “Frankenstein software” http://www.greatestwebapps.com/why-software-apps-suck/ They may do everything, but not anything great. If you go with the niche software concept, then you can more easily adopt newer tech when something better or more nimble comes along. It’s much harder to replace a software when it manages too many aspects of your business. I digress…
So time tracking wise I’ve been using Beebole. It’s a very different interface, but at the time very few tools allowed me to assign a different billable rate per person, and then have it debit against a fixed budget.
Brad, Active Collab does a decent job of recurring project templates with other robust features, but I feel like the organization of it from a UI stand point is really annoying. Just simple things like “Attaching a file” seem so old school. For a while I was using Mavenlink. But their lack of subtasks was really annoying, and the views didn’t make it manageable. They since implemented some updates that may make me go back to it.
As for the power task list tool, I looked at Asana but Producteev won out. slightly more intuitive, and more advanced in terms of views. Like sort by deadline, or show me ALL tasks regardless of project or who it’s assigned to.
In the end I’m still looking, and lacking… And wishing and hoping that some day there will be that AHA! moment.
Hello everybody, I definitely agree with Pashmine that an application shouldn’t be a Frankestein that does it all but nothing great. I have started developing an app about 6 months ago and most of the research time was spent in making the UI lighter and faster and just being super good at some points that I considered to be crucial in a pm tool. I am very close to launchi it and and I am very interested in a feedback from you guys. More info at http://www.easyplanpm.com
Hi everyone! Thanks for the article. I was using Basecamp for several years and always thought that Basecamp is the best project management system for those new to project management too. But about a year ago we implemented in our company another task tracking software solution from comindware. Very good and multi functional system. Also I like its feature of instant real time reporting.
Hi great post!
We are looking for a PM solution for our company if you can give us suggestions it would be great.
We are looking for a PM solution that offers, Task delegation, simple discussions within the project, private assignment of task to specific members of the project, chat facility / Group meeting if possible would be great.
Is there is any PM tool that can do all these any suggestions would be highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
@kumarranjit Hmm; the group meeting might be one of the harder things to add. Basecamp has campfire which is group chat. Zoho has a group chat function. Podio was acquired by citrix; so I’d expect some gotomeeting function in the future. I’m not sure of one that has true group meeting integration (it probably exists – I just don’t know if it).
The private assignment might be a difficult one. Many of the PM softwares have the ability to have the task lists private; but that’s usually private for just the owners – not necessarily everyone. Granular permissions are hard to come by in many systems.
I’d take a look at basecamp classic or zoho for what you need.
Thanks Brad for the quick reply appreciate the same. for testing I did signup with basecamp and Podio, after playing around with Basecamp like the simple interface but I feel the new basecamp its not offering much and has too little functionality with it’s default feature set.
I also looked into Podio initial impressions lots of options, scared me at the beginning
I completely forgot to mention having a time-tracking tool in these PM would be great coz it would be easier to track time spent on Projects, does Podio have a built in time-tracking mechanism or does it again require third party tools to accomplish that?
I’m not sure about podio and time tracking as Podio was just too slow for me.
Basecamp classic, teamworkpm, zoho, and deskaway have time tracking. Also, you might want to look at your invoice system as well to see if that has time tracking. I like doing time tracking regardless of invoicing to see where time is being spent/what can be automated. However, some companies prefer to timetrack inside their invoice system.
Personally, I use cashboardapp for invoicing which will do a 2 way sync with basecamp classic for invoicing. Finding 2 way syncs is difficult to find for many PM systems though.
Great post Brad, very insightful, and @pashmina, thanks for mentioning Swydo as a project management tool for PPC. We are always happy with feedback on our product.
Swydo is indeed only made for online marketers and has recurring tasks, time tracking, progress of projects /services, Calendar integration, Google docs integration. We are working on templates.
Next to that there is PDF reporting with your own or your clients logo, templates and API integration with Google Analytics, Adwords, Webmaster tools and Twitter. You create a login with your Google Account, so there is no need to think of a new username/password.
We are working on further improvements, so if you want you give us input please do so .
Basecamp, Podio etc. are great tools, but are specifically made for projects, while, we as marketers, mostly work on ongoing services. These ongoing services are not well supported in these traditional PM solutions. The difference is for instance that you want to see progress or time spend per month.
We try to avoid creating ‘frankenstein software’. We basically try to make software that integrates task management for online marketers and easy client reporting and that’s it. The next stage will be the symbiosis of KPI’s in tasks and online marketing. So you can say ” When I have keywords with quality score <3 automatically create a task for me". We will not have bid management etc. in Swydo. Our vision is that you manage Adwords in the native interface or the Adwords editor. I invite you to help us program the right product for your needs.
Best regards, Jeroen , Swydo
@jeroen still a possibility of bordering on Frankenstein. “recurring tasks, time tracking, progress of projects /services, Calendar integration, Google docs integration” – all of that while albeit done by separate tools, is done far better BY other tools than yours.
If instead your software took the best of the best existing micro-niche services out there to fill each need, and then plugged in the gaps, I’d be more interested.
As of now, there is no way I’d replace current task management software (Producteev) with yours. You simply can’t compete, period. Just take a look at their iPhone or iPad app, and it is immediately evident how many man hours of development, design and testing has gone into making it one of the best task management apps out there.
So don’t try and beat ‘em, join them! I have yet to find a project management app/company smart enough to relegate task lists and task management; a small, yet complex aspect of total work flow to a 3rd party provider like Producteev, Asana, etc. And I don’t see why not! Believe me when I do, I’ll latch onto it like sesame on rice.
Same for time management. Apps like Tymer, Beebole, Freckle, take the cake. So why not integrate with them? So what makes the best work flow service app? Well, they’d be agnostic and allow seamless integration with ANY of the above. All of them have useful APIs.
Kind of like what Freshbooks has done with their integration with 3rd party accounting services/software. Even Freshbooks isn’t sacred though. I wish they’d ditch their attempts at project management and focus on just pure invoicing/billing.
@pashmina So you are creating projects in Producteev, many time management in Beebole, probably have a separate CRM, report in Excell? pffff Seems like, to use another analogy than Frankenstein, you want the best carbon fiber frame, alu rims, and super lightweight tires. There’s only one problem: the loose parts are no bike, so you can’t go for a ride. (we have a lot of bikes here in Amsterdam).
But I do follow your reasoning, that’s why we did not make an agenda or file management. We integrate with Google’s. We will make an integration with Freshbooks etc. and stick to core functionality: reporting and service management / workflow for online agencies and departments.
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